R16 STORIES (english version)

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Hello everybody

In april 02, on the Yahoo Group on the 16, I asked members to talk about driving a R16 in their countries. I want to edit all the texts in this part of the group and will translate them in french in the part "Histoires de Renault 16"

I want to ask the same question today.

You can use this group or the yahoo group or both. Thanks.

Here is the question I asked at that time and my own text for France.

"in this group, there is usually questions about mechanic.
Well, it's useful, I suppose. I leave in France (Brittany) and I can
still find a good professional who knows the Renault 16 and can
repair it. No problem with my car...

I would like to ask you very special questions: what does it
mean in your country to drive such a car ? Is it cheap ? Is it a
crazy thing to do ? Is it weird like driving a Traban in west Europe
? And what does it mean to you when you're sitting in it ? Do you
feel the stress flowing out of your body ? Last but not least, what
place had the Renault 16 in your country in the sixties and seventies
? Was it the car of the modern man ? Was it the car of the suburbs ?
Was it the car of the family with no money ? Was it an exotic car ?

I'm interested in this because I think we can find a lot of
signs in every human choice. Asking you this is for me trying to
understand how this car is seen out of France, what it figures in
other cultures.

Thanks for your answers. If you think that this group is not
the place for that or if you've so much things to say, use my
personal mail (blelan@mac.com).

May be I can answer for France.

In France the Renault 16 may be the last car bought either by
businessmen and workers. Every social classes had a 16 once. The rich
had the TS and then the TX. The family and the worker had the L and
the TL. I'm working on local development and when I met businessmen,
they usually speak about my car. 50% of them had a 16. The other 50%
don't bother about cars or had a Peugeot. It's always this way when
the person I'm speaking to has 50 years old or more (I'm 37). If he
is part of my generation, he speaks about the car of his father ! The
long journey to the south in summer. The status of his family when
the 16 has been part of it and the regrets always coming along when
the father remembers those years ? "It was a very good car. But he
had to sell it because it was rotten..." Always needing to justify
themselves. My answer is always the same: "it was not a good car, it
is !".

Two of my uncles had one 16 in the early seventies. One was a
worker always on the road. His brother wanted to get a beautiful car
and was a worker too, but only use his car in our beautiful small
village. Both were not used car but new ones.

In France, the Renault 16 has a very positive image. It is
the image of a past when you can drive softly a nervous car, and
reach a good speed in new motorways. It's the first car with five
doors. The back's one (hatchback) was the revolution in 1965 (year of
my birth, gosh!) in such a big car. And it was a tall one: you don't
have to be a contortionist to sit in it. There is no door on it "cut
by the wheels" like cars of those days.

Well, hatchback, taller than the previous one, a roomy car,
between the station wagon and a classical car. The Renault 16 is not
the more innovative car (like the Citroën ID or DS was in the
fifties), it's just the first modern car, adapted to people's modern
way of life (mobility, tourism development implicate big luggage),
convenient in the new road network. For Renault trademark, this is
the first step before the legendary add "Renault, les voitures à
vivre" ("Renault, cars to live in"). The Renault 20, 30, 25 and
Safrane are only modern 16. The Espace and... Vel Satis are the
results of the 16 scheme applied on 80 and 90's cars (between
classical cars and station wagon).

It's a good example in France of a go-between. It has the
typic seventies' design (angles, agressive look, etc. ) the
architecture of the seventies, and the materials coming from the
early sixties (chrome lines and chrome bumpers for the figure,
"bakelite" - don't have the translation, sorry- , etc.) . Before the
16, a car is fat and smooth. After the 16, it's the reign of the
plastic... bye bye chrome.

Tomorrow morning, like every morning, when I'll drive my
children to school, I'll prepare them to have weird childhood
recollections in the future: "our dad was crazy. He was driving a 26
years old Renault 16, was often talking about the car and was making
theories on it for crazy people on the web. What futile habits had
these people in those days !"

Sorry for being so long. Passion talking.

Bruno"

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An american said:

" I like these kind of questions. First off, Yes if you drive a Renault in America, especially something like an R-16. You're a Strange person indeed. Yes it's about like driving a Trabbi in Europe, people look at you like you're crazy, or they'll look at you like...what, you couldn't afford a "normal" car?? and an R-16 in the US is about as Common as say a Studebaker in France. I wasn't old enough to remember the 60s but I'm sure the Renault was bought by people who wanted something Very unconventional, probably similar to who drives them today, someone who just can't own something "normal". When I drive my R 16 I just love the way I sink in to the seats, it's just SO comforatable, years ago when I had an R 16 my friends dubbed it the "Couch" and that's still pretty accurate today. The only thing I don't like about it, is that spare parts are getting virtually impossible to come by locally and there are None left in the local wrecking yards, so I'm afraid if something major goes wrong with my car, Not me or anyone else will have the resources to repair it."

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AN AUSTRALIAN BIKER SAID

"Back to 16s:
In Australia, driving a 16 (or a 12 for that matter) does indicate you are a
strange person, but also somewhat cheap. In terms of $AU, I bought my 16ts
(no photos at the moment) which was in immaculate condition for $450.
Registered. In terms of a common currency, that's only 75 large McDonalds
meals. I just didn't eat for 75 days to buy it .
They aren't really seen as a 'cheap' car to buy, that's more reserved for
the likes of Cortinas, Escorts, and other Australian-only (I think) Holden
Camiras. Compared to a 16, they're ordinary cars.
What it means to me when I'm sitting in it is that it's possibly the fastest
armchair I've ever owned. If I want comfort, and still be able to hustle
around, I take the 16. If I want to go faster (and hurt myself...) I take a
motorbike. In that sense the 2 options for me are perfectly matched.
Everyone who has ever gone for a ride in it usually says: "ugly outside, but
gee those seats are nice." Never had any complaints regarding the ride.
In Australia in it's day it was seen as exotic, primarily because front
wheel drive hatchbacks didn't seem to fit with the outback. The people who
own them understand that they are a great car for their load carrying
abilities. That green 16 in the background of one of the motorbike photos
was my grandfather's 16TL that he bought new simply because it had the same
ability to carry planks of wood as his older Holden stationwagon, but in
something half the size and more fun to drive.

And hey, as a University student I can't say no to a car that can
comfortably (maybe not safely) seat 4 up on the front seat and 5 up in the
back, yet be not much larger than most cars of it's day."

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An austrian said:

"Hello!

Unfortunately I can´t tell what it is to drive a car like the Renault
16 on Austrians mountain roads, because I just decided to buy one - I
still don´t have it, and I don´t have the faintest idea when it´ll be
back on the road after 10 years of standing in a gardener´s hall...

Well, my father also had 2 16´s, a L or GL of the sixties (I can´t
remember of the year, but it´s been silver), and a yellow TS of 1974,
with a black stripe on the side. It´s been the first car I ever
started (without my father knowing it, in the garage!!!), on which I
learned the feeling for accelerator and clutch, and so on. My father
lost it in an accident, but it also had a lot of rust everywhere.

Now when you talk to people in my father´s age (around, 50 or 60)
everybody has had a 16, or one of his or her family or friends. Half
are pleased, and talk about comfort, the other half talks about
corrosion.

I hope to give you more im´pression when "my" car will be on the road
again.

Best regards from Ausria, in the heart of Europe."

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You are supposed to know this swedish because he is the webmaster of the website "http://drive.to/r16" (Magnus Belk):

"in SWEDEN the first owner of an R16 was often a highly technically
educated person who wanted the latest stuff. At least in the 60's and early
70's. Often these people moved on to BMWs, Jags and other high tech cars.
As the cars got older and changed owners it often became the cheap second
car, and were mistreated to death. Low rust resistance didn't help either
and the R16's of Sweden soon became popular at the junkyards.
Today when people talk about R16 it's either the first category, who
remembers the R16 as a very comfortable and advanced car for its time, or
the people who had it as a banger, remembering it as unrelieable heap of
rust.
Driving an R16 today is maybe considered odd, but not bad taste. There are
hardly no old bangers around and the few you see are regarded as collectors
cars."

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An other australian said this fabulous story:

"My only experience as a youngster with any type of Renault at all was
back in the early 60s with a Dauphine. Mind you, I was living in the
USA and my father was a Buick salesman at the time, so it was regarded
by us all as a bit of a joke.
Years later, serving in the UK with the USAF, I bought a 4CV from a
shady sort down at the motor pool - I never got past sitting in it and
dreaming of being on the road before my Squadron Commander insisted that
I give it up.
My current ride, a 1975 R16TS, was sitting in a paddock alongside the
road I travel each day to work (I now reside in Australia), with a big
FOR SALE sign propped up against the grill. I patiently watched and
waited as the price noted thereon, dropped in increments from a very
optimistic $1500 to $500, at which point I stepped in and bought it.
I really had no idea at all what I was getting into...it just looked to
me to be a small, 4-cylinder car that might be just right as a first car
for oldest daughter who was then approaching driving license age.
After researching the marque on the internet and giving it a thorough
clean and getting it prepared for the roadworthy certificate inspection,
my daughter made a brief noise which, loosely interpreted, indicated
that she might not be interested in this vehicle, and I jumped on the
opportunity to make it Dad's "project" car.
That was 20k km ago and I drive it anytime I am not riding my Harley,
which works out to be about once or twice each week; I use it anytime
it's bucketing rain in the morning, I have to carry something to work
that won't fit on the bike, or the kids have to be carted somewhere.
Currently, it goes shzshzshzshzshz whenever the clutch pedal is
depressed, clunka-clunka-clunka-clunka when I accelerate into a right
hand turn and rumble-rumble-rumble-rumble from the rear suspension when
I drive over bumps in the road. It reeks of fuel if I fill the petrol
tank to the top as there's a pinhole leak in the top of the tank - as
long as I keep the petrol level down, the Epoxy glue fix I made works.
The parking brake can't be used because the cable is frayed at the
bottom of the handle and jams on when you set it (I carry a brick in the
boot). Every couple of weeks or so, I have to get out my screw driver
and re-install the air cleaner on the carb where it keeps coming off.
The paint is peeling off the right, rear quarter panel from a bodgey
spray job sometime in its past. There are three points of rust I'm
watching, one at the front tip of the bonnet, another along the rocker
panel just behind the left front wheel and the third in the lower rear
portion of the driver's side rear door. Finally, just like a small male
dog, it leaves its mark (oil droppings) everywhere I park it.
So, it is without any real logic involved whatsoever that make the next,
totally inane statement; I like this car.
Cheers everybody,"

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An englishman said:

"Hi from England
In the U.K. The R16 was bought new ,initially
by mainly well educated people ,like university professors and people who
appreciated the clever design,also by those who were not as conservative as
the average car buyer who bought say a Ford Cortina or Morris Oxford.Later
the purchaser base widened as the qualities of the car began to be more
widely appreciated.By the beginning of the 1970'sThe 16 was selling to
customers who had never before bought a foreign car or one with front wheel
drive.It gained a strong reputation for comfort, roadholding,practicality
and reliability.Although most company cars were of the traditional type,
some companies wanting to project an ultra modern image bought r16's for
their fleets..By the mid 80's the surviving 16's had become old' bangers'
,but now the few remaining cars are usually fondly remembered by those who
drove them years ago.The profile of those who actually run a 16 in 2002 are
split between those who have always run a 16 like myself and younger people
who have purchased one as their classic car.In the U.K.as Bruno said in
France the 16 was a car that cut across class,it was bought by both workers
and bosses ,scientist's and showbusiness celebrities. Sorry for any poor
grammar or spelling as I am somewhat tired after a hard day at work.
Safe R16 driving"